I'm an ex-RAF F4 strike/attack and AD pilot and I thought I'd offer a few snippets to some of your Phantom ejection listings.

I was on 17 Sqn when Dave Baker was killed ejecting from XV397 in June 1973 (an unlucky aircraft - I'd had a multiple hydraulic failure in it and crash landed at Ahlhorn a couple of years earlier). What your other correspondent says is true but it may be of interest that the instrument failure was a very insidious one that the Board of Enquiry tried on several of us without warning in the simulator and we all did what Geoff (not George) Roberts did - entered a spiral dive and only realised when it was far too late to recover. The crash resulted in a modification of the standby attitude indicator.

When Keith Spawton and Mike Harris were killed in XV427 in August 1973, they were No. 2 in a pair with me leading. My back seater was John Nunn. I'd flown the same aircraft earlier in the day, flown a check ride on Keith the previous week, and authorised the sortie - try to get more involved with a Board of Enquiry than that!!  The trip was a lead-up to Keith's op check and was specifically to sharpen his battle and fighting wing formation skills as well as some range work. We were flying down a valley to the east of Dusseldorf with Keith in fighting wing right in a slight left-hand turn when he tried to cross to the left in order to close up a bit. He hit my slipstream and got spat out nose low and steeply banked. He nearly recovered but a small knoll got in the way and he just clipped it. Mike Harris, who was an experienced ex-OCU staff back seater, can't have seen it coming. The wreckage went through a German village and I couldn't believe that no-one on the ground was hurt - it looked like carnage.

I was then on 92 Sqn AD when Chris Rounce and Chris Meade were killed in XV483 in July 1978. I'd flown the previous sorte in the aircraft, bringing it back from a detachment at Aalborg with Dave Bennett three days before. They were on a low-level CAP sortie and whilst manoeuvring with some bandits Chris Rounce got into the classic F4 coffin corner - low, slow and descending - with almost inevitable results. 

I hope that the above is of interest. The F4 was criticised by some for poor handling but if you knew what you were doing and took notice of what the aircraft was telling you it was a magnificent piece of kit to fly. I got 2,500 hours in it and loved every one.It was a far more enjoyable mount than the Tornado F3 that I flew later.

Dave Hunt

Your entry says "pilot stayed with the aircraft to avoid a built up area and was killed".

What actually happened, as far as I can recall, is that Ian Vacha ejected first, but when the front seater, Mike Keane, pulled the lower handle, nothing happened.  He then tried the top handle, also to no avail. 

It's true that the aircraft was heading towards a Dutch village, and that Mike stayed with the aircraft, but not for lack of trying to get out.  The ac was burning and he was losing control quickly, but fortunately, as the ac rolled and the nose dropped, Mike's seat suddenly fired and he was ejected safely.  The aircraft continued its manoeuvre away from the village, and although there was some damage, nobody was injured.

The theory was, I believe, that the front canopy had been held on by vortices generated by airflow over the empty rear cockpit.  The F4 seat would not fire as long as the canopy was in place.  The changing attitude of the ac as it departed seems to have changed the airflow sufficiently to allow the system to operate.

The nice bit about the story is that the crash investigators could not find several major parts of the ac, including at least one of the seats, and none of the villagers seemed able to help.  Meanwhile, Mike had been hailed as a hero for, as your current report says, staying with the ac to save the village, about which they were not disabused.  When Carnival came round in February, Mike was invited to be the guest of honour in the carnival parade.  When he pitched up at the assembly point to board the main float, he discovered the rest of his ac.  The float was done up as a very realistic F4 and he was back in his own seat!

 

A much happier ending. 

Regards

Al Sawyer
(Nav at Bruggen at the time)
in email 11th November 2007

The aircraft crashed at Mawbray Nr Silloth Cumbria. You have it as Mawbury Scotland.
Its actual crash site is between the hamlets of Beckfoot and Mawbray just off the B5300 coast road from Maryport to Silloth.Hope this helps you with the site.
David
in email 17th April 2008

 

The attached photo shows the aircraft just getting airborne in a high nose attitude and leaving a trail of burning grass in its wake.  The picture was taken by Bill Turner and should be credited to him if published. "

Regards

Dave Harvey
in email 19th February 2011

 

The attached photo shows the aircraft just getting airborne in a high nose attitude and leaving a trail of burning grass in its wake.  The picture was taken by Bill Turner and should be credited to him if published. "

Regards

Dave Harvey
in email 19th February 2011

The FG.1 loss on 10/1/72 was one of my squadron's a/c. The pilot was Cmdr Simon Idiens, RN, the Station "Air Boss." He had a double 'flame-out' while carrying out super-sonic interceptions over the Bristol Channel. At 16,000ft his observer Lt. 'Rod' O'Connor ejected safely and was recovered by the Culdrose SAR helo, but Simon was never found. 'Rod' was positive that he saw Simon eject, and the following day a lady who lived near the North Cornish coast swore that she saw a body floating in the sea near the cliffs and it was wearing a white helmet. The CG did a through search but sadly found nothing. Very sadly, his wife who had also been married to another naval aviator, lost her first husband in a Sea Vixen night accident in Lyme bay a few years previously!